[Partially Approved] E2 restrictions thread

[post calone]

So I'm gonna be making another suggestion on here, this is a big one so I'm gonna give you guys an option to respond about your opinions on it.

I believe that we should restrict the ("players") string from being allowed inside of the findIncludeClass function.  If we find a way to disallow this string from being used with this function, no player should be able to target any players in the first place, and that's what this function does if you include this string.

Another part of this is that you can also use it to target entities and ultimately include every single type of drone or LFS which in all cases will be against the rules.  You can do it like this

Spoiler:

findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_arc170")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_bf109")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_combineheli")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_tridroid")
findIncludeClass("lfs_crysis_vtol")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_n1starfighter")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_p47d")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_spitfire")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_vulturedroid")
findIncludeClass("elan_blackwatch_blackhawk")
findIncludeClass("elan_blackwatch_gunship")
findIncludeClass("elan_military_blackhawk")
findIncludeClass("elan_military_gunship")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_a10warthog")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_ah1z")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_ah6")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_z10w")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_fa18f")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_fantan")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_mi28n")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_su25tm")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_su35")

If we find a way to restrict the ability to target other players with E2 (unless you're an admin) then we can ultimately put a big stop on abusive E2 until a workaround is found.


I have a second suggestion to this if you guys don't like the first.  We could just restrict the ability to spawn in Entities with the sentSpawn function.  This will prevent all players from being able to spawn in Entities with E2.

Post your opinions or counter suggestions here.

Spoiler:

Do not come and post about how "You can just abuse other ways so restricting this will do nothing" or any other lame excuses.

Disallowing findIncludeClass for players could end useful Expression 2 chips too. Let's not ruin the function entirely. If I have a suggestion that is helpful I will post it here.

[westernspy]

ok yeah i feel like lfg is becoming a dictatorship
ive said this shit many, many, many times
you're removing the things people like, you can't just decide for yourself and you have to observe what other people like and dislike, many people like e2, which is mainly why players come to lfg, if you remove the things people like, player count just goes down and youre gonna kill off lfgs player count
about the findclass option, i personally don't agree with restricting findclass, if you're trying to remove wire e2 shit, i will not let you do that, this is all for the players, not just you, and yeah you can say my explanation is just a wall of text full of bullshit, but i'm pretty much trying to not fuck this up
findclass
other than lfg being only three dictators and a large player count, the findclass thing in e2 is pretty useful in some things, although i don't know how to explain this because i never experimented with e2, never coded things in e2, but i can tell it's a kinda big thing in e2
you guys are trying to get rid of e2 completely (how many times do i have to repeat this) and not decide for yourself, fuck fuck fuck, am i going insane? bullshit.
also that you is... maybe three people
you guys happy i'm not using a "you can just use other ways so restricting this will do nothing" excuse?
screw my explanation, it's just a wall of text

[Demonik1]

i personally don't agree with restricting findclass, if you're trying to remove wire e2 shit, i will not let you do that

I can tell you didn't read the post.

[westernspy]

i personally don't agree with restricting findclass, if you're trying to remove wire e2 shit, i will not let you do that

I can tell you didn't read the post.

bullshit. that's exactly why my post might be a wall of text full of bullshit, it sounds like you didn't read my post, either.

[child beater 9k]

So I'm gonna be making another suggestion on here, this is a big one so I'm gonna give you guys an option to respond about your opinions on it.

I believe that we should restrict the ("players") string from being allowed inside of the findIncludeClass function.  If we find a way to disallow this string from being used with this function, no player should be able to target any players in the first place, and that's what this function does if you include this string.

Another part of this is that you can also use it to target entities and ultimately include every single type of drone or LFS which in all cases will be against the rules.  You can do it like this

Spoiler:

findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_arc170")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_bf109")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_combineheli")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_tridroid")
findIncludeClass("lfs_crysis_vtol")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_n1starfighter")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_p47d")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_spitfire")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_vulturedroid")
findIncludeClass("elan_blackwatch_blackhawk")
findIncludeClass("elan_blackwatch_gunship")
findIncludeClass("elan_military_blackhawk")
findIncludeClass("elan_military_gunship")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_a10warthog")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_ah1z")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_ah6")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_z10w")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_fa18f")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_fantan")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_mi28n")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_su25tm")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_su35")

If we find a way to restrict the ability to target other players with E2 (unless you're an admin) then we can ultimately put a big stop on abusive E2 until a workaround is found.


I have a second suggestion to this if you guys don't like the first.  We could just restrict the ability to spawn in Entities with the sentSpawn function.  This will prevent all players from being able to spawn in Entities with E2.

Post your opinions or counter suggestions here.

Spoiler:

Do not come and post about how "You can just abuse other ways so restricting this will do nothing" or any other lame excuses.

To be honest, I don't know if enough people actually use findIncludeClass("player") to actually warrant restricting it, not to mention its often used for small things like alarms and clickable egp screens and the such, which aren't super important but are still nice to have. sentSpawn is used for a lot of different things, and since ATGMs and the other explosives have been restricted, there shouldn't be a need to block sentSpawn.

EDIT:
As to what russian said, I joined Tokos and some other servers today to take a look, and I've seen a few people already move from LFG to Tokos or other servers like Apoc or BLU3 and wherever else. I know it might not be a huge dip in playercount, but these are a few of the more active users or members. Again, there doesn't seem to be much of a reason left to block findIncludeClass("player") or sentSpawn now that the things that utilized them were restricted, considering they're used for so much else.

[Demonik1]

since ATGMs and the other explosives have been restricted, there shouldn't be a need to block sentSpawn.

There's a ton of unrestricted explosives on Sandbox that I haven't discovered.  It would take months of monitoring e2 abuse to restrict them all.

[westernspy]

this is already fucking hiroshima level, should we just end this thread and just get on with our lives? at least find a restriction everyone agrees to, this is mainly why i don't like discussion threads without polls, we can have the discussions, but not without the polls in my opinion

[child beater 9k]

There's a ton of unrestricted explosives on Sandbox that I haven't discovered.  It would take months of monitoring e2 abuse to restrict them all.

And those are props, not entities. Prop spawning is used by far more other things, and from what I'm aware there is ONE unrestricted explosive prop and it does under 1 if any damage. (I don't actually know how much, zack and I were in pvp, him wearing no armor, and I put it next to him and hit break and it detonated, doing no damage to him at point blank)

[SaintLuther]

other than lfg being only three dictators and a large player count

I didn't know dictatorships consisted of multiple people. Also, who are the members of this "dictatorship"? And why are dictators posting suggestions?

[alexcat2]

So I'm gonna be making another suggestion on here, this is a big one so I'm gonna give you guys an option to respond about your opinions on it.

I believe that we should restrict the ("players") string from being allowed inside of the findIncludeClass function.  If we find a way to disallow this string from being used with this function, no player should be able to target any players in the first place, and that's what this function does if you include this string.

Another part of this is that you can also use it to target entities and ultimately include every single type of drone or LFS which in all cases will be against the rules.  You can do it like this

Spoiler:

findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_arc170")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_bf109")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_combineheli")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_tridroid")
findIncludeClass("lfs_crysis_vtol")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_n1starfighter")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_p47d")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_spitfire")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_vulturedroid")
findIncludeClass("elan_blackwatch_blackhawk")
findIncludeClass("elan_blackwatch_gunship")
findIncludeClass("elan_military_blackhawk")
findIncludeClass("elan_military_gunship")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_a10warthog")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_ah1z")
findIncludeClass("lunasflightschool_ah6")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_z10w")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_fa18f")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_fantan")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_mi28n")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_su25tm")
findIncludeClass("merydianlfs_su35")

If we find a way to restrict the ability to target other players with E2 (unless you're an admin) then we can ultimately put a big stop on abusive E2 until a workaround is found.

I have a second suggestion to this if you guys don't like the first.  We could just restrict the ability to spawn in Entities with the sentSpawn function.  This will prevent all players from being able to spawn in Entities with E2.

Post your opinions or counter suggestions here.

Spoiler:

Do not come and post about how "You can just abuse other ways so restricting this will do nothing" or any other lame excuses.

Can we just don't please? Like for the love of God that's what makes half of my friendly things like the radio and the box base teleporter work. Like i could seriously list the number of non rule breaking e2s that rely on these things are. Its a core of wiremod and e2.

List of my E2s that use this in a constructive manner -

Spoiler:

    The Cube Base Teleporter entrance - it moves a chair back and forth so I can have my base far away but the entrance at spawn so people can come in and party. Even Zellogi was somewhat impressed by it.

    Item Counter - finds all of a class and tells you about them, also allows for specific classes alone to be deleted because there are a few classes that are immune to being cleaned.

    The Big Wheels E2 - finds all copies of the facepunch logo that are mine and retextures them into wheels

    Automatic doors - its like a passcode door except you can just walk through it for people who are whitelisted.

    Capture the flag - its capture the flag, whats not to like. needs to find players so it can let them pick up flags, only kinda important for capture the flag

    Spawnpoint control - used for random death match the game/gamemode, allows me to place extra spawnpoints all over via a teleporter at spawn.

    LFS block - allows me to shield spawn from LFS without making a massive disturbance. As you can see, e2 can even help with enforcing the rules.

    The Tau Cannon Giver - for people who dont have HL:Source this is like the only method for them to get that

    The party drug spawner - Ever Wish you didnt have to keep spawning in the drugs for your McDonalds rampage? With this you can avoid that.

    The follower E2 - lets us make things that follow people, usually music players. Yes it is abusable, but they can just call an admin and point at the thing. Consent is a thing.

    The Classfinder E2 - gets me classes from what it can detect in an area. Useful for ferreting out how different vehicles work so I can modify them. Also useful for detecting hidden things that shouldn't be there.

    The Spectator E2 - lets me spectate a person via wirecamera to check for abuses. If I am there physically in game they would get suspicious. This is the best compromise I can find that doesn't require being admin.

    The Player Finder E2 - useful because sometimes I can't find where my friends are on a map, or so I can show people things. You can track players without being abusive.

    The Zombie Apocalypse E2 - Spawns in a ton of Zombies so people can RP that we are in the Walking Dead. Its Really Obvious so if I abused this/didn't get permission you could easily get me banned, but at the same time people really like RP

    The Automated Exosuit and Grapple Belt Equpper - I know you hate spawning them in after death and so do I. This removes that without having to pester Saint for more addon tweaks and without adding anything that might add more script errors

    The Ammo E2 - gives the person a bunch of Ammo for events because not everyone is donator. there is still other more important perks and I rarely share it so im not "undermining the need for donator"

    Also as for excuses its not an excuse that we want to have nice things that also have potential to be abused. Hell, Saint even graced us with plycore so we can go fast in buildmode.  If you want 100% no abuse then ban every weapon and every spawnable entity. Yeah, it will kill what makes the server great, but that will do the job.

    For real though, We have a multitude of admins on Sbox now, and if you see E2 abuse you have the power of bans and wirebans. If you are saying you need to restrict the entirety of E2 then you are admitting that all of the staff, including you are incompetent. We can have nice things and not have the server die because of admins, so consider actually using your powers for good rather then just whining about it on the forums.

    A more relevant question would be asking if e2 should be restricted to trusted/members and above, not removing what makes the server nice. If We continue down this path the entire community will likely leave for the next greenest pasture that they can find. Keep in mind how many people loved Pac4 when you got that removed, and how many more it will drive away from LFG if you remove this. Like legit my entire group is considering leaving, and I bet others will too.